No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

I'm not sure what's going on with me lately, but this is about the 10th thing that I've disagreed with you on this week. Of course, some disagreement betwixt us will be healthy for the sometimes monotone atmosphere of AB.

I think this is ridiculous that yet another entertainment medium feels the need to "Go Simpsons" on us and get preachy. It's a comic book, for cryin' out loud. As someone who was formerly very into comics, this politicizing would turn me off today.

Let the Avengers take on Galactus without the allegory for the current American landscape mumbo-jumbo and I'll get my political commentary from the news.

(btw - let me head this off at the pass: yes, I know that comics have contained allegory for years (i.e. Sentinels), but it seems to be getting progressively more intertwined with the *fantasy* that comics provide. Even Tolkien said he hated allegory)

I am having trouble with this comment. It's not like Marvel has traditionally avoided these kinds of topics. In fact, some characters exist only because of this kind of stuff. What was Captain America originally? WWII propaganda. He fought Nazis and Japs during WWII. Then he was Cold War propaganda. But for years, they have written him to face conflicts between what America stands for, and what its politicians try to enact. How is this different?

Americans feel a struggle, a conflict, between security and privacy. They have for years. I guess you see comics as a way to escape that part of the world - hence your use of the word "fantasy". But these guys have always used comics as a way to address that part of the world, not escape it.

I would find it more preachy if they wrote all characters to fall in line one way or the other on issues of privacy vs security. Showing conflict is good fiction.

I am having trouble with this comment about my comment.

Captain America was WWII propaganda? And Jedis only see shades of gray, right? Captain America was black and white, good old-fashioned good vs. evil. Steve Rogers stood against Nazis in WWII, stood against the Evil Empire in the Cold War, and fought a few intergalactic baddies on the way, as well. There wasn't a lot of proselytizing and preaching about it; as it was pure fun and escape.

It's much like the difference between the first three Star Wars movies, and the latter three, when George Llucas decided to lecture us on real-life global politics, essentially destroying a modern epic. I'd hate to see comic books drawn in the same direction, as I noticed was starting to happen throughout the Eighties.

Again, when I pick up a book like - say - LotR, The Two Towers, I don't want to be exposed to what the author's view is of George W. Bush and NSA wiretapping. Because frankly, I don't give a damn. What I want is to read an epic fantasy about good triumphing over evil. I'll gladly get my Op Eds from the newspapers, blogosphere, Atlas Blogged, Lefty NPR, and the various news programs on TV.

I am having trouble with... um... hang on. [head spins]

Okay. Captain America was WWII propaganda. I mean that in an objective way. Propaganda is not bad per se. Cap was a vehicle for kids to participate in anti-Nazi sentiment, and then anti-Soviet sentiment. I haven't read any comics lately, but I am sure he is anti-al Qaeda. That much is black and white, good vs evil. But Cap was always different from FF or Spidey - it's always been about the Super Patriotic Eagle Scout Adventure Comic.

I don't see how this new series would have to depart from that.

I think the difference between this and something like the SW prequels is that the comics are market driven. Little kids don't buy comics anymore. The "Golden Age" is over. Heck, most of the characters in this Civil War are from the later "Silver Age" anyway - they have always dealt with areas of greater moral ambiguity. That's what there is a market for these days.

The plot device of categorizing super-powered people is ambiguous - it is something that has its positives and negatives, especially from the point of view of the super characters. Cap wants the world to be black-and-white, but in reality he would have to deal with the realities of legislators and executives whose actions are someimtes of questionable Constitionality. It's as real as the sunrise. To ignore it is to consign that comic to the history books, because there isn't a market for Cap fighting Nazis anymore. They would go out of business.

Again, when I pick up a book like - say - LotR, The Two Towers, I don't want to be exposed to what the author's view is of George W. Bush and NSA wiretapping. Because frankly, I don't give a damn. What I want is to read an epic fantasy about good triumphing over evil.

Sounds like you are not the target audience, that's all. But I would guess that a regular reader would find this to be very in line with what Marvel Comics has written about over the last couple of decades.

Does anyone remember the comic series about how the heros reacted right after 9/11? Didn't think so. When comics tend to take a specific issue and make it a main focus, then it gets tricky. There is a way to handle it and maintain the entertainment value (see The Incredibles for such an example). I would have to agree that an issue about whether spider man decides to reveal his identity or not is really not that exciting to me. Much like batman, pretty much everyone knows who the hell he is by now anyway. People turn to comics for the escapism of the medium, and not to see their favorite heros battling issues they deal with in real lives. What fun is that?

See The Hulk struggle with his taxes!

Witness Iron Man clash against metal detectors at airport security!

Gasp in horror as Captain America is sued for copyright infringement by the US Government for using the name "America" in his moniker.

If we wanted realism in our comics, we would just read Doonesbury every day.

Sounds like you are not the target audience, either.

I'll let you know how the first issue is.

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